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	<title>Comments for Recovering Pentecostal</title>
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		<title>Comment on Grace by Jen Shivers</title>
		<link>http://recoveringpentecostal.com/grace/comment-page-1/#comment-7245</link>
		<dc:creator>Jen Shivers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Feb 2012 22:10:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://recoveringpentecostal.com/?page_id=9#comment-7245</guid>
		<description>I left UPC six years ago and recently went through yet another bout of anxiety attacks and fear over going to hell. Why do I fear that I am going to hell? It&#039;s not because I&#039;m committing any terrible sin, but solely because of the brainwashing I received while I was in UPC for seventeen years. I never know what is going to trigger one of these &quot;episodes&quot;. But when I go through one, I spiral down into a pit of despair.

The latest episode occurred last week, shortly after I visited a new church. I found myself enjoying the fellowship since that is the focus of the church, but I couldn&#039;t shake the doubts that this church is teaching false doctrine...they didn&#039;t teach Acts 2:38. The salvation message of faith was too easy. Then I begin to hear the voices of my former UPC mentors echoing in my head that I&#039;m lost, the people in this new church are lost, everyone who does not follow Acts 2:38 is lost.

This is when I had to start at square one analyzing why I left UPC. Was I wrong in leaving? Was I rebellious like the pastor and his wife told me? My emotions take me on a roller-coaster of self-doubt, self-questioning, regret, anxiety, and fear. This continues for several days. Of course I have no one to tell my fears to because none of my family members were a part of UPC so don&#039;t understand. Plus, they think I should have gotten over this years ago. I think so too so am surprised when this happens every so often.

What brought me out of the latest episode was remembering the terrible things that UPC did to some friends of mine and to me. The so-called friends who endured horrible treatment at various times, chalked it up as a price they had to pay for the truth. They are all still in UPC and have chosen to either shun me, or to have an extremely distant relationship.

When I remembered the past wickedness at the hands of those people, the fog began to lift, and I began to see clearly once again that I am OK with God.

What happened in the past? Here are just a few things that come to mind:

Three of my friends were raked over the coals by a pastor for such things as their attitudes, how they taught Sunday School, complaints by choir members, or other church members. As a result, all of them had some form of hysterical breakdown, and one was so stressed, her body began to shut down, she developed a severe case of candida and she lost a baby at seven months pregnancy. She later became a pastor&#039;s wife and her and her husband falsely accused me of several things because I wasn&#039;t enough of a yes man for them -- even though I had supported her during the earlier difficult time.

But, this is one terrible part of UPC. The clergy/laity authority fallacy. The clergy is elevated above the other members and they can do no wrong. I&#039;m sure there are exceptions, but in my case and several others I witnessed, the clergy were always right and were not to be questioned, EVER!

The pastors in UPC are elevated to a god-like status. This is a fact! I heard this in many UPC churches that when a pastor speaks, God is telling him something, so if you disobey him (the pastor), it&#039;s like disobeying God.

I was labeled, rebellious, wicked, a covetor of authority, a person with emotional issues, stubborn, etc... I even told the people telling me this that I thought I would have a nervous breakdown and they didn&#039;t care! I was told I would go to hell if I left the church. I was made to look like I left because of some secret sin when in actuality, I had not done anything wrong except to say I did not want to be controlled.

Am I describing a Christian church? Am I describing a church that anyone would want to go to? Unfortunately, the ones who are abused and still choose to stay think somehow they have paid their dues and so are more deserving of heaven, or if they don&#039;t think that, they are too afraid to leave.

Anyone who has left, knows there is a terrible price to pay for leaving. The longer in, the harder the price to pay! That alone is an indication of an extremely abusive (i.e. wicked) system. The hateful treatment at the hands of these people is the devil&#039;s work.

So although I have paid dearly for my departure, I truly believed 
God delivered me from an emotionally unhealthy and wicked organization. Is wicked too strong a word? Say anything that is opposed to UPC teaching and see what the response will be. If you don&#039;t change your position, you will begin to be labeled everything terrible and ridiculed to the point where you think you&#039;re going to lose your mind.

***
Outside of the occasional episode, I am happier than I ever was while in UPC! 

If you are still in UPC, but have been abused, please find the courage to leave. It is the only way you will ever find God&#039;s grace. If you have left, but have fearful episodes every now and then like I do, be consoled that God does care about you and will bring you through to a brighter, happier day. Don&#039;t look back with regret, but allow God to take you to a deeper relationship with Him... a relationship which does not require a mediator such as a pastor or mentor, does not depend on a UPC rule book, and is not reliant on your good or bad performance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I left UPC six years ago and recently went through yet another bout of anxiety attacks and fear over going to hell. Why do I fear that I am going to hell? It&#8217;s not because I&#8217;m committing any terrible sin, but solely because of the brainwashing I received while I was in UPC for seventeen years. I never know what is going to trigger one of these &#8220;episodes&#8221;. But when I go through one, I spiral down into a pit of despair.</p>
<p>The latest episode occurred last week, shortly after I visited a new church. I found myself enjoying the fellowship since that is the focus of the church, but I couldn&#8217;t shake the doubts that this church is teaching false doctrine&#8230;they didn&#8217;t teach Acts 2:38. The salvation message of faith was too easy. Then I begin to hear the voices of my former UPC mentors echoing in my head that I&#8217;m lost, the people in this new church are lost, everyone who does not follow Acts 2:38 is lost.</p>
<p>This is when I had to start at square one analyzing why I left UPC. Was I wrong in leaving? Was I rebellious like the pastor and his wife told me? My emotions take me on a roller-coaster of self-doubt, self-questioning, regret, anxiety, and fear. This continues for several days. Of course I have no one to tell my fears to because none of my family members were a part of UPC so don&#8217;t understand. Plus, they think I should have gotten over this years ago. I think so too so am surprised when this happens every so often.</p>
<p>What brought me out of the latest episode was remembering the terrible things that UPC did to some friends of mine and to me. The so-called friends who endured horrible treatment at various times, chalked it up as a price they had to pay for the truth. They are all still in UPC and have chosen to either shun me, or to have an extremely distant relationship.</p>
<p>When I remembered the past wickedness at the hands of those people, the fog began to lift, and I began to see clearly once again that I am OK with God.</p>
<p>What happened in the past? Here are just a few things that come to mind:</p>
<p>Three of my friends were raked over the coals by a pastor for such things as their attitudes, how they taught Sunday School, complaints by choir members, or other church members. As a result, all of them had some form of hysterical breakdown, and one was so stressed, her body began to shut down, she developed a severe case of candida and she lost a baby at seven months pregnancy. She later became a pastor&#8217;s wife and her and her husband falsely accused me of several things because I wasn&#8217;t enough of a yes man for them &#8212; even though I had supported her during the earlier difficult time.</p>
<p>But, this is one terrible part of UPC. The clergy/laity authority fallacy. The clergy is elevated above the other members and they can do no wrong. I&#8217;m sure there are exceptions, but in my case and several others I witnessed, the clergy were always right and were not to be questioned, EVER!</p>
<p>The pastors in UPC are elevated to a god-like status. This is a fact! I heard this in many UPC churches that when a pastor speaks, God is telling him something, so if you disobey him (the pastor), it&#8217;s like disobeying God.</p>
<p>I was labeled, rebellious, wicked, a covetor of authority, a person with emotional issues, stubborn, etc&#8230; I even told the people telling me this that I thought I would have a nervous breakdown and they didn&#8217;t care! I was told I would go to hell if I left the church. I was made to look like I left because of some secret sin when in actuality, I had not done anything wrong except to say I did not want to be controlled.</p>
<p>Am I describing a Christian church? Am I describing a church that anyone would want to go to? Unfortunately, the ones who are abused and still choose to stay think somehow they have paid their dues and so are more deserving of heaven, or if they don&#8217;t think that, they are too afraid to leave.</p>
<p>Anyone who has left, knows there is a terrible price to pay for leaving. The longer in, the harder the price to pay! That alone is an indication of an extremely abusive (i.e. wicked) system. The hateful treatment at the hands of these people is the devil&#8217;s work.</p>
<p>So although I have paid dearly for my departure, I truly believed<br />
God delivered me from an emotionally unhealthy and wicked organization. Is wicked too strong a word? Say anything that is opposed to UPC teaching and see what the response will be. If you don&#8217;t change your position, you will begin to be labeled everything terrible and ridiculed to the point where you think you&#8217;re going to lose your mind.</p>
<p>***<br />
Outside of the occasional episode, I am happier than I ever was while in UPC! </p>
<p>If you are still in UPC, but have been abused, please find the courage to leave. It is the only way you will ever find God&#8217;s grace. If you have left, but have fearful episodes every now and then like I do, be consoled that God does care about you and will bring you through to a brighter, happier day. Don&#8217;t look back with regret, but allow God to take you to a deeper relationship with Him&#8230; a relationship which does not require a mediator such as a pastor or mentor, does not depend on a UPC rule book, and is not reliant on your good or bad performance.</p>
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		<title>Comment on UPC/Standards by Noemi</title>
		<link>http://recoveringpentecostal.com/upcstandards/comment-page-1/#comment-7205</link>
		<dc:creator>Noemi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jan 2012 14:19:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://recoveringpentecostal.com/?page_id=12#comment-7205</guid>
		<description>Thank you!  It&#039;s been 13 years since I walked away from the UPC and am just now finding the courage to face the process of &quot;reprograming.&quot;  My departure from the church was very painful and filled with confusion, guilt, and doubt, however, my love for God and truth would not allow me to stay another day.  For 13 years I have tried to ignore the emotional, spiritual, and physical consequences of questioning and leaving this religion that ruled every aspect of my life since I was a child.  I hoped ignoring them could make them go away, but this has only prolonged the recovery process.  Your site and others I have recently found have given me the strength I need to revisit that fragile,complicated space in my heart and mind.  My spirit is broken and needs to be renewed, but I know I wont find peace until I face my past and recuperate from the trauma, yes trauma, that experience caused in my life.  Thank you, and everyone else who shares, for speaking up, not with bitterness or malice, but with love.  I am looking forward to being healed and finding peace in God&#039;s love.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you!  It&#8217;s been 13 years since I walked away from the UPC and am just now finding the courage to face the process of &#8220;reprograming.&#8221;  My departure from the church was very painful and filled with confusion, guilt, and doubt, however, my love for God and truth would not allow me to stay another day.  For 13 years I have tried to ignore the emotional, spiritual, and physical consequences of questioning and leaving this religion that ruled every aspect of my life since I was a child.  I hoped ignoring them could make them go away, but this has only prolonged the recovery process.  Your site and others I have recently found have given me the strength I need to revisit that fragile,complicated space in my heart and mind.  My spirit is broken and needs to be renewed, but I know I wont find peace until I face my past and recuperate from the trauma, yes trauma, that experience caused in my life.  Thank you, and everyone else who shares, for speaking up, not with bitterness or malice, but with love.  I am looking forward to being healed and finding peace in God&#8217;s love.</p>
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		<title>Comment on UPC/Standards by S</title>
		<link>http://recoveringpentecostal.com/upcstandards/comment-page-1/#comment-7068</link>
		<dc:creator>S</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jan 2012 18:19:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://recoveringpentecostal.com/?page_id=12#comment-7068</guid>
		<description>Hi Jenni, 

A friend of mine emailed me a link to your blog yesterday &amp; I am so glad that she did! I left the UPC fully about 1 year ago however, I still have many ties to it like basically all of my friends are UPC so I still attend some events &amp; weddings &amp; such so its so hard to be between 2 very different worlds. I too don&#039;t want to be one of those people that leave the UPC &amp; Christianity both. I want to remain a Christian but sometimes I feel like I am so damaged &amp; at times feel as if it would have just been easier to stay in it. I&#039;m still not even to the point where I can post pictures on Face book in earring or pants. I&#039;ve gotten over the feelings of looking like I have 10 heads when I wear pants : ) My fundamental questions really started while I was in Bible School the very place where I thought I would finally accept everything as growing up in a UPC ministers family inside I could never quite accept that this faith was right. I still struggle so much with the idea of grace &amp; if I am good enough as a person &amp; good enough to go to heaven. These thoughts drain me to no end &amp; I feel like my twenties have been such a struggle. This is cliché but in many ways I feel like I missed a big part of my childhood struggling with my life’s beliefs &amp; so much guilt &amp; I don&#039;t want to miss the rest of twenties as well. I identify fully with your blog &amp; am looking forward to reading the whole thing in the next week. I really really appreciate that you took the time to make this blog as it is such a relief to read it. My desire is to be an authentic Christian. Thank you for helping my life : )</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Jenni, </p>
<p>A friend of mine emailed me a link to your blog yesterday &amp; I am so glad that she did! I left the UPC fully about 1 year ago however, I still have many ties to it like basically all of my friends are UPC so I still attend some events &amp; weddings &amp; such so its so hard to be between 2 very different worlds. I too don&#8217;t want to be one of those people that leave the UPC &amp; Christianity both. I want to remain a Christian but sometimes I feel like I am so damaged &amp; at times feel as if it would have just been easier to stay in it. I&#8217;m still not even to the point where I can post pictures on Face book in earring or pants. I&#8217;ve gotten over the feelings of looking like I have 10 heads when I wear pants : ) My fundamental questions really started while I was in Bible School the very place where I thought I would finally accept everything as growing up in a UPC ministers family inside I could never quite accept that this faith was right. I still struggle so much with the idea of grace &amp; if I am good enough as a person &amp; good enough to go to heaven. These thoughts drain me to no end &amp; I feel like my twenties have been such a struggle. This is cliché but in many ways I feel like I missed a big part of my childhood struggling with my life’s beliefs &amp; so much guilt &amp; I don&#8217;t want to miss the rest of twenties as well. I identify fully with your blog &amp; am looking forward to reading the whole thing in the next week. I really really appreciate that you took the time to make this blog as it is such a relief to read it. My desire is to be an authentic Christian. Thank you for helping my life : )</p>
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		<title>Comment on Grace by Elizabeth</title>
		<link>http://recoveringpentecostal.com/grace/comment-page-1/#comment-7043</link>
		<dc:creator>Elizabeth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jan 2012 19:20:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://recoveringpentecostal.com/?page_id=9#comment-7043</guid>
		<description>Finally I&#039;ve worked up the nerve to leave the UPC. Finally, after having questioned it for a decade and a half. Finally, despite it being bred into my DNA. Finally, despite the fact my family is &quot;4th generation&quot; and many of them are evangelists, missionaries, and pastors.

This has been so easy and so hard. Many of you will relate. Easy because I know I am in God&#039;s will and He has His hand on my life. I know He&#039;s leading me into knowledge of His grace every day. I am excited about what He has in store for me and my life. Easy because I can finally embrace Him without endless restrictions and &#039;rules&#039; that I live by because those rules are making me more holy, more deserving, more spiritual...

Hard because, of course, of the fall out. My family is convinced I&#039;m lost forever and I&#039;m setting up my three children for a life time of failure, heartache, sin, and of course, hellfire and damnation. My mother told me it&#039;s like a death in the family and it&#039;s causing her blood pressure to be too high. My sister developed shingles from laying awake at night worrying about me. 

But regardless, I know I&#039;m in His will. And I know I&#039;m on a path exactly where He wants me to be.

One of the number one things that&#039;s helped me is reaching out to people I&#039;ve known of over the years that have left the UPC. Since I really don&#039;t want to be bitter or cynical, I am trying to reach out to those who have left but have remained positive and are living victorious lives in a new healthy church environment; thriving and raising their kids in His grace. I&#039;ve just simply called them and said; &#039;Look, I know you left and maybe you don&#039;t want to talk about it. Please know that I&#039;m not judging you one bit, but I&#039;ve left and I need to talk. What advice, tips, and encouragment can you give me? Can you tell me about your experience?&quot; Without exception, they&#039;ve been open and honest with their experiences. They&#039;ve encouraged me beyond belief! Knowing how they&#039;ve dealt with the brainwashing, the family disappointments, etc. has been so helpful to me. I encourage all of these readers to reach out to people you know that have successfully (and positively) &#039;escaped&#039;. I know that in the future others will be reaching out to me in the same way.

The interesting thing is that some people have already contacted me; people still in the UPC but desperately unhappy and questioning themselves. I&#039;m doing everything I can to encourage them without &#039;slamming&#039; the UPC. Of course people in the UPC will share heaven with me and I don&#039;t want to be negative about that denomination. After all, it&#039;s my own foundation and has given me the wonderful life I have now. 

Sadly, many phone calls are people still in the UPC who weep and moan, get angry, and generally try everything to convince me of my horrible backslidden state. I find it interesting how quickly the women ask me: &quot;So...when are you going to start cutting your hair/wearing pants/makeup/jewelry, etc.&quot; They don&#039;t ask about how I feel, or my thoughts on salvation, or anything about my actual spiritual life. They are so quick to rudely ask about standards. To me, it just shows how standards have become the main focus for some people; the &#039;crutch&#039; or robes of righteousness that people clutch tightly around themselves, falsely giving them the feeling that they are earning salvation because they look the part. So very, very sad. I recently heard that Mary Mary song &quot;....take the shackles off my hands so I can dance...I want to praise Him!....&quot; on the radio and wow, it sure meant something to me!

Jesus is so good! Thank you Jenni for this site. I&#039;ve stalked it for awhile but felt led to comment today. Sorry for the long post but if it can help even one person then praise God. Stay strong and positive, people! Seek Him! In Christ Alone is our salvation and it will be worth it all....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Finally I&#8217;ve worked up the nerve to leave the UPC. Finally, after having questioned it for a decade and a half. Finally, despite it being bred into my DNA. Finally, despite the fact my family is &#8220;4th generation&#8221; and many of them are evangelists, missionaries, and pastors.</p>
<p>This has been so easy and so hard. Many of you will relate. Easy because I know I am in God&#8217;s will and He has His hand on my life. I know He&#8217;s leading me into knowledge of His grace every day. I am excited about what He has in store for me and my life. Easy because I can finally embrace Him without endless restrictions and &#8216;rules&#8217; that I live by because those rules are making me more holy, more deserving, more spiritual&#8230;</p>
<p>Hard because, of course, of the fall out. My family is convinced I&#8217;m lost forever and I&#8217;m setting up my three children for a life time of failure, heartache, sin, and of course, hellfire and damnation. My mother told me it&#8217;s like a death in the family and it&#8217;s causing her blood pressure to be too high. My sister developed shingles from laying awake at night worrying about me. </p>
<p>But regardless, I know I&#8217;m in His will. And I know I&#8217;m on a path exactly where He wants me to be.</p>
<p>One of the number one things that&#8217;s helped me is reaching out to people I&#8217;ve known of over the years that have left the UPC. Since I really don&#8217;t want to be bitter or cynical, I am trying to reach out to those who have left but have remained positive and are living victorious lives in a new healthy church environment; thriving and raising their kids in His grace. I&#8217;ve just simply called them and said; &#8216;Look, I know you left and maybe you don&#8217;t want to talk about it. Please know that I&#8217;m not judging you one bit, but I&#8217;ve left and I need to talk. What advice, tips, and encouragment can you give me? Can you tell me about your experience?&#8221; Without exception, they&#8217;ve been open and honest with their experiences. They&#8217;ve encouraged me beyond belief! Knowing how they&#8217;ve dealt with the brainwashing, the family disappointments, etc. has been so helpful to me. I encourage all of these readers to reach out to people you know that have successfully (and positively) &#8216;escaped&#8217;. I know that in the future others will be reaching out to me in the same way.</p>
<p>The interesting thing is that some people have already contacted me; people still in the UPC but desperately unhappy and questioning themselves. I&#8217;m doing everything I can to encourage them without &#8216;slamming&#8217; the UPC. Of course people in the UPC will share heaven with me and I don&#8217;t want to be negative about that denomination. After all, it&#8217;s my own foundation and has given me the wonderful life I have now. </p>
<p>Sadly, many phone calls are people still in the UPC who weep and moan, get angry, and generally try everything to convince me of my horrible backslidden state. I find it interesting how quickly the women ask me: &#8220;So&#8230;when are you going to start cutting your hair/wearing pants/makeup/jewelry, etc.&#8221; They don&#8217;t ask about how I feel, or my thoughts on salvation, or anything about my actual spiritual life. They are so quick to rudely ask about standards. To me, it just shows how standards have become the main focus for some people; the &#8216;crutch&#8217; or robes of righteousness that people clutch tightly around themselves, falsely giving them the feeling that they are earning salvation because they look the part. So very, very sad. I recently heard that Mary Mary song &#8220;&#8230;.take the shackles off my hands so I can dance&#8230;I want to praise Him!&#8230;.&#8221; on the radio and wow, it sure meant something to me!</p>
<p>Jesus is so good! Thank you Jenni for this site. I&#8217;ve stalked it for awhile but felt led to comment today. Sorry for the long post but if it can help even one person then praise God. Stay strong and positive, people! Seek Him! In Christ Alone is our salvation and it will be worth it all&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Grace by Ty</title>
		<link>http://recoveringpentecostal.com/grace/comment-page-1/#comment-7006</link>
		<dc:creator>Ty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Jan 2012 02:18:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://recoveringpentecostal.com/?page_id=9#comment-7006</guid>
		<description>Oh how I wept when I read your testimony! There is such relief knowing that there are others who have experienced what I&#039;m presently going thru. I have felt so utterly alone.

Me and my husband left the UPC about 5 years ago. We were both raised in it. Both our parents are strict UPC pastors, and my husband was even a liscensed UPC minister for 15 years. Leaving the church was and still is the hardest thing I have ever done. Because of the &quot;fear&quot; that you speak of in your testimony, we don&#039;t go to church anywhere. Our parents, who are pastors, would rather us be totally &quot;lost&quot; than to see us attend a church other than UPC. They are the only ones with the &quot;truth&quot;. We&#039;ve also been told that we would become reprobates if we left the truth. But...what is truth? Jesus said...&quot;I am the way, the life, and the truth...&quot; 

I want to find the &quot;grace&quot; that you speak of! That is something that is rarely taught in the UPC. I have longed to talk with others about these issues. Sometimes I think that I am going crazy trying to figure out answers to tons of questions that I have concerning standards and things. I&#039;ve always been taught that if you have to question it...then it is probably wrong. Or they would respond with &quot;obedience is better that sacrifice&quot;. 

While being on the outside and looking back in, I&#039;ve come to realize that it really is simply having a relationship with God.  Oh, I know how to dress the part. I could &quot;line up&quot; tomorrow and everyone would think that I&#039;m back in. But I&#039;ve come to know that only God knows my heart. 

Would you please pray for me and my husband to find our way. (This seems to be very hard because of who our parents are!) I want God to guide us. I plan to read the books that you recommended! Thank you so much for putting your journey into words. They have blessed me!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh how I wept when I read your testimony! There is such relief knowing that there are others who have experienced what I&#8217;m presently going thru. I have felt so utterly alone.</p>
<p>Me and my husband left the UPC about 5 years ago. We were both raised in it. Both our parents are strict UPC pastors, and my husband was even a liscensed UPC minister for 15 years. Leaving the church was and still is the hardest thing I have ever done. Because of the &#8220;fear&#8221; that you speak of in your testimony, we don&#8217;t go to church anywhere. Our parents, who are pastors, would rather us be totally &#8220;lost&#8221; than to see us attend a church other than UPC. They are the only ones with the &#8220;truth&#8221;. We&#8217;ve also been told that we would become reprobates if we left the truth. But&#8230;what is truth? Jesus said&#8230;&#8221;I am the way, the life, and the truth&#8230;&#8221; </p>
<p>I want to find the &#8220;grace&#8221; that you speak of! That is something that is rarely taught in the UPC. I have longed to talk with others about these issues. Sometimes I think that I am going crazy trying to figure out answers to tons of questions that I have concerning standards and things. I&#8217;ve always been taught that if you have to question it&#8230;then it is probably wrong. Or they would respond with &#8220;obedience is better that sacrifice&#8221;. </p>
<p>While being on the outside and looking back in, I&#8217;ve come to realize that it really is simply having a relationship with God.  Oh, I know how to dress the part. I could &#8220;line up&#8221; tomorrow and everyone would think that I&#8217;m back in. But I&#8217;ve come to know that only God knows my heart. </p>
<p>Would you please pray for me and my husband to find our way. (This seems to be very hard because of who our parents are!) I want God to guide us. I plan to read the books that you recommended! Thank you so much for putting your journey into words. They have blessed me!</p>
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		<title>Comment on UPC/Standards by Potatoe</title>
		<link>http://recoveringpentecostal.com/upcstandards/comment-page-1/#comment-6784</link>
		<dc:creator>Potatoe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Dec 2011 21:15:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://recoveringpentecostal.com/?page_id=12#comment-6784</guid>
		<description>Jenn, I feel the exact same way. Fourteen years of believing things that I just don&#039;t see in the Bible. I have recently taken the time to fast, pray and study the scriptures regarding &quot;standards&quot; and see none of what they say in the word. I feel severely distressed at times when I think of their faces and words, yet completely comfortable before God. I get upset that I actually was stupid enough to believe what I believed. The only way I will ever end up in heaven is b/c of what Jesus did. That&#039;s the ONLY way!!! It&#039;s just hard to get all of those thoughts out of my mind that have been planted. It&#039;s not a nice thing to go through. I know the Bible says &quot;be not dismayed at their faces&quot; but I am talkin about church people. It&#039;s really sad that I can be myself around everyone but them. This is hard.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jenn, I feel the exact same way. Fourteen years of believing things that I just don&#8217;t see in the Bible. I have recently taken the time to fast, pray and study the scriptures regarding &#8220;standards&#8221; and see none of what they say in the word. I feel severely distressed at times when I think of their faces and words, yet completely comfortable before God. I get upset that I actually was stupid enough to believe what I believed. The only way I will ever end up in heaven is b/c of what Jesus did. That&#8217;s the ONLY way!!! It&#8217;s just hard to get all of those thoughts out of my mind that have been planted. It&#8217;s not a nice thing to go through. I know the Bible says &#8220;be not dismayed at their faces&#8221; but I am talkin about church people. It&#8217;s really sad that I can be myself around everyone but them. This is hard.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Don&#8217;t call me beautiful. by The Flamingo</title>
		<link>http://recoveringpentecostal.com/2011/12/dont-call-me-beautiful/comment-page-1/#comment-6397</link>
		<dc:creator>The Flamingo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Dec 2011 04:24:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://recoveringpentecostal.com/?p=393#comment-6397</guid>
		<description>This is a tough one.  I admit it would be nice to hear I&#039;m beautiful from my husband in some other context than, &quot;You sure look beautiful . . . today.&quot;  I&#039;ve always told Flamingo Joe that it&#039;s a good thing I don&#039;t rely on him for my self-esteem.  But it&#039;s true that my self-worth comes from Christ and who He is making me to be -- and I praise God for that because I see the harm in relying on others to tell you you&#039;re beautiful.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a tough one.  I admit it would be nice to hear I&#8217;m beautiful from my husband in some other context than, &#8220;You sure look beautiful . . . today.&#8221;  I&#8217;ve always told Flamingo Joe that it&#8217;s a good thing I don&#8217;t rely on him for my self-esteem.  But it&#8217;s true that my self-worth comes from Christ and who He is making me to be &#8212; and I praise God for that because I see the harm in relying on others to tell you you&#8217;re beautiful.</p>
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		<title>Comment on UPC/Standards by Jenn</title>
		<link>http://recoveringpentecostal.com/upcstandards/comment-page-1/#comment-5332</link>
		<dc:creator>Jenn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Oct 2011 16:59:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://recoveringpentecostal.com/?page_id=12#comment-5332</guid>
		<description>I am a 10 year recovering Pentecostal.  I am the &quot;backslider&quot; that everyone from my former UPC church (very large) looks down upon.  Even my own family considers me &quot;backslider&quot; and thinks I need to &quot;come back&quot;.  Its so hard because I see them all as brainwashed now.  Its a constant struggle reprogramming my brain from all the scare tactics that were used on me for 18 years.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am a 10 year recovering Pentecostal.  I am the &#8220;backslider&#8221; that everyone from my former UPC church (very large) looks down upon.  Even my own family considers me &#8220;backslider&#8221; and thinks I need to &#8220;come back&#8221;.  Its so hard because I see them all as brainwashed now.  Its a constant struggle reprogramming my brain from all the scare tactics that were used on me for 18 years.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Waking Up by joy</title>
		<link>http://recoveringpentecostal.com/leaving/waking-up/comment-page-1/#comment-5076</link>
		<dc:creator>joy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Sep 2011 01:37:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://recoveringpentecostal.com/?page_id=52#comment-5076</guid>
		<description>Hi Jenni,
I too was part of a WoF church and can relate with tears to pretty much everything you&#039;ve written of your experience...  It is such an encouragement as I just left two months ago (right down to the day!) and I&#039;m finally praying and reading my Bible without feeling complete confusion.   All I saw was condemnation, and I&#039;d finally forget about trying to get to know God when I probably wasn&#039;t saved in the first place.  

Anyway, I just wanted to add my two cents to Mike&#039;s question.  I was raised in a Christian Reformed church, went to Christian schools and was taught this stuff was demonic and/or ridiculous, and should have never gotten involved.  All I&#039;ve actually seen is a pile of &quot;gold dust&quot; on a shirt that the pastor had saved from someone who was heavily involved in the occult, in the moment he cried out for Jesus to save him, this stuff appeared all over his shirt.  Supposedly, when he went to his dresser to get a new shirt, his other clothes were already covered in it.  

Of course no one went to get it tested, and to me it honestly looked like a pile of sparkles with some metal filings in it, which it likely was, and no one actually saw it appear on the guy.  This person also claimed a ton of healings (cancer x2, shrinking aneurism x2, vomiting up abdominal tumors after prayers - however, no medical evidence ever appeared), claimed being physically transported by the Holy Spirit, and a number of other unverified miracles.  Shortly afterwards, the elder&#039;s wife sprinkled the dust all over the prayer room and demanded that God give us more.  

Most accounts of gold dust have turned out to be nothing more than glitter, like Jenni said, when tested.  There was one account (I believe it was of Ruth Ward Heflin, but don&#039;t quote me) that claimed &quot;her&quot; gold dust was a &quot;sandwich&quot; of gold, titanium, and oil, but was later shown to be false.  I&#039;ve also heard a former elder at my old church claim he saw gold dust &quot;fly&quot; out of a speaker who had the laughter at TACF.

People will try to see what they want to - At my former church again, there was a big fuss over the youth group&#039;s hands getting covered in dust during a bible study, but no one mentioned that they sat at the same tables the kids&#039; club did, where, believe it or not, they did crafts involving glitter...  No one could question the glory of God deciding to sit on the table in the form of glitter!

Anyway, going back to this guy who was in the occult - I don&#039;t know a ton about that stuff, but I have heard crazy, first-hand stories of missionaries in countries where witchcraft, witch doctors, demon posession, etc., are common.  They are able to manipulate objects, and perform &#039;wonders&#039; by another spirit, and we are told in scripture about lying signs and wonders.  I&#039;m 100% sure that most of these faith-healer-gold-dust-etc people are setting up the &#039;signs&#039; themselves, but I wonder in some cases if it&#039;s something beyond people that is causing it to happen, just as psychic mediums can tell people things they shouldn&#039;t be able to know - not by their own power.  Because this church guy was literally being groomed to be the leader of a satanist cult in my area, he had survived child sacrifice, it would make sense to me that if our enemy could make gold dust appear, he&#039;d do it just to distract us from God to seek more &#039;signs and wonders&#039; like so many churches are these days.  I also accept that I could be totally out there on that thought, but I think it&#039;s possible. :)

Anyway, I&#039;m not sure if your buddy heard about things happening in his church, or if he personally experienced them with his own eyeballs.  In my experience, there was a ton of hype about having signs and wonders following the true believers, not a lot of gold dust, gemstones, &quot;angel&quot; feathers, orbs of light, etc., etc., etc., etc. falling out of people.  However, at one point we were seeking signs to the point where ANYTHING could have become a sign if we were creative enough.  :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Jenni,<br />
I too was part of a WoF church and can relate with tears to pretty much everything you&#8217;ve written of your experience&#8230;  It is such an encouragement as I just left two months ago (right down to the day!) and I&#8217;m finally praying and reading my Bible without feeling complete confusion.   All I saw was condemnation, and I&#8217;d finally forget about trying to get to know God when I probably wasn&#8217;t saved in the first place.  </p>
<p>Anyway, I just wanted to add my two cents to Mike&#8217;s question.  I was raised in a Christian Reformed church, went to Christian schools and was taught this stuff was demonic and/or ridiculous, and should have never gotten involved.  All I&#8217;ve actually seen is a pile of &#8220;gold dust&#8221; on a shirt that the pastor had saved from someone who was heavily involved in the occult, in the moment he cried out for Jesus to save him, this stuff appeared all over his shirt.  Supposedly, when he went to his dresser to get a new shirt, his other clothes were already covered in it.  </p>
<p>Of course no one went to get it tested, and to me it honestly looked like a pile of sparkles with some metal filings in it, which it likely was, and no one actually saw it appear on the guy.  This person also claimed a ton of healings (cancer x2, shrinking aneurism x2, vomiting up abdominal tumors after prayers &#8211; however, no medical evidence ever appeared), claimed being physically transported by the Holy Spirit, and a number of other unverified miracles.  Shortly afterwards, the elder&#8217;s wife sprinkled the dust all over the prayer room and demanded that God give us more.  </p>
<p>Most accounts of gold dust have turned out to be nothing more than glitter, like Jenni said, when tested.  There was one account (I believe it was of Ruth Ward Heflin, but don&#8217;t quote me) that claimed &#8220;her&#8221; gold dust was a &#8220;sandwich&#8221; of gold, titanium, and oil, but was later shown to be false.  I&#8217;ve also heard a former elder at my old church claim he saw gold dust &#8220;fly&#8221; out of a speaker who had the laughter at TACF.</p>
<p>People will try to see what they want to &#8211; At my former church again, there was a big fuss over the youth group&#8217;s hands getting covered in dust during a bible study, but no one mentioned that they sat at the same tables the kids&#8217; club did, where, believe it or not, they did crafts involving glitter&#8230;  No one could question the glory of God deciding to sit on the table in the form of glitter!</p>
<p>Anyway, going back to this guy who was in the occult &#8211; I don&#8217;t know a ton about that stuff, but I have heard crazy, first-hand stories of missionaries in countries where witchcraft, witch doctors, demon posession, etc., are common.  They are able to manipulate objects, and perform &#8216;wonders&#8217; by another spirit, and we are told in scripture about lying signs and wonders.  I&#8217;m 100% sure that most of these faith-healer-gold-dust-etc people are setting up the &#8216;signs&#8217; themselves, but I wonder in some cases if it&#8217;s something beyond people that is causing it to happen, just as psychic mediums can tell people things they shouldn&#8217;t be able to know &#8211; not by their own power.  Because this church guy was literally being groomed to be the leader of a satanist cult in my area, he had survived child sacrifice, it would make sense to me that if our enemy could make gold dust appear, he&#8217;d do it just to distract us from God to seek more &#8216;signs and wonders&#8217; like so many churches are these days.  I also accept that I could be totally out there on that thought, but I think it&#8217;s possible. <img src='http://recoveringpentecostal.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Anyway, I&#8217;m not sure if your buddy heard about things happening in his church, or if he personally experienced them with his own eyeballs.  In my experience, there was a ton of hype about having signs and wonders following the true believers, not a lot of gold dust, gemstones, &#8220;angel&#8221; feathers, orbs of light, etc., etc., etc., etc. falling out of people.  However, at one point we were seeking signs to the point where ANYTHING could have become a sign if we were creative enough.  <img src='http://recoveringpentecostal.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>Comment on UPC/Standards by Melena</title>
		<link>http://recoveringpentecostal.com/upcstandards/comment-page-1/#comment-5010</link>
		<dc:creator>Melena</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Sep 2011 06:05:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://recoveringpentecostal.com/?page_id=12#comment-5010</guid>
		<description>I am also a recovering pentecostal. I was raised all of my life or childhood in the UPC. When I became an adult I started to question standards and felt all of the experiences that you share in your story. I knew I loved God and wanted whatever he wanted in my life but I was clueless as to the answer of how is &quot;standards&quot; going to progress my relationship with God. I then made a decision to start to pray about what I was feeling and ask God to show me the right path or way in his word. It was from then on a personal thing, a personal relationship that I started to develop with God. Something that I never really done before. God has became my &quot;everything&quot; not church but &quot;God&quot;. There is one question I really dont understand how anyone would think that you cant experience God if you dont belong to a church? And to say his presence is not felt at home, in the bathroom, walking in the yard, driving my car, would all be wrong. I cant wait til Sunday to &quot;feel&quot; God I need him every day of the week.. Something I read that I liked a couple of days ago was a prayer- Father I pray for your will, nothing more and nothing less. Now dont you think that puts everything including &quot;self&quot; out of the way. I am a 14 year recovering pentecostal. I will agree with this group that in no way would I ever disrespect ANYONE who wants to serve God but I have to question myself to the things I do and why I do them. I have realized that its is ok to agree to disagree and God still loves me and you just the same &quot;equal&quot; we are all his children. If you have children then your know no matter what they do you still love them. You may get disappionted or not agree with something they have done but bottom line you will still desire a relationship with them. I feel God desires that personal relationship with us more so that a relationship felt on Sundays. Love is so important between God and I and I and others :))</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am also a recovering pentecostal. I was raised all of my life or childhood in the UPC. When I became an adult I started to question standards and felt all of the experiences that you share in your story. I knew I loved God and wanted whatever he wanted in my life but I was clueless as to the answer of how is &#8220;standards&#8221; going to progress my relationship with God. I then made a decision to start to pray about what I was feeling and ask God to show me the right path or way in his word. It was from then on a personal thing, a personal relationship that I started to develop with God. Something that I never really done before. God has became my &#8220;everything&#8221; not church but &#8220;God&#8221;. There is one question I really dont understand how anyone would think that you cant experience God if you dont belong to a church? And to say his presence is not felt at home, in the bathroom, walking in the yard, driving my car, would all be wrong. I cant wait til Sunday to &#8220;feel&#8221; God I need him every day of the week.. Something I read that I liked a couple of days ago was a prayer- Father I pray for your will, nothing more and nothing less. Now dont you think that puts everything including &#8220;self&#8221; out of the way. I am a 14 year recovering pentecostal. I will agree with this group that in no way would I ever disrespect ANYONE who wants to serve God but I have to question myself to the things I do and why I do them. I have realized that its is ok to agree to disagree and God still loves me and you just the same &#8220;equal&#8221; we are all his children. If you have children then your know no matter what they do you still love them. You may get disappionted or not agree with something they have done but bottom line you will still desire a relationship with them. I feel God desires that personal relationship with us more so that a relationship felt on Sundays. Love is so important between God and I and I and others <img src='http://recoveringpentecostal.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> )</p>
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